FuzzFactory in pedal switcher bypassed loop squeels

[yhertogh]

Hi,

I also posted this at the Zvex forums:

I have a vexter Fuzz Factory, powered by a Voodoolab PP2. I am using a voodoolab pedal switcher , the FF is in loop 1. Loops 2 and 3 have other fuzzboxes, loop 4 is dedicated to modulation pedals, daisychained. I actually have two PP2s on my board (just giving as much information as possible) and all pedals, inclduing the pedal switcher itself, are powered through them and go through any of those 4 loops.

The issue is that i can hear the FF squeel, even if the pedal switcher loop is bypassed. I can control the squeel with the stab button on the FF. This is very odd as the loops are true bypass loops (using relays).

Any idea what is going on here and how to fix this ?

In the mean time I got a response from Zachary Vex:

Sounds like the relay isn't grounding the input/output from the FF when in bypass mode. That is unfortunately quite necessary with the FF, or it will squeal.

Is it true that , when bypassed, the loops are not grounding the inputs and outputs ? Any way to fix this ? The weird thing is that this problem was not initially there, but at that time i might have been using the buffered input, or might have been using a different loop for the FF.

Thanks,

Yves

[Josh Fiden]

...I got a response from Zachary Vex:

Sounds like the relay isn't grounding the input/output from the FF when in bypass mode. That is unfortunately quite necessary with the FF, or it will squeal.

Is it true that , when bypassed, the loops are not grounding the inputs and outputs ? Any way to fix this ? The weird thing is that this problem was not initially there, but at that time i might have been using the buffered input, or might have been using a different loop for the FF.

Thanks,
Yves

When a Pedal Switcher loop is bypassed, the SEND (input to the Fuzz Factory) is grounded. The extent of the controls on a Fuzz Factory allow it to operate in conditions that are unstable and prone to oscillation. Ordinarily this would be a bad thing, but in the case of the Fuzz Factory, it lets you get a lot of cool sounds. Most likely the fuzz is generating a high level signal when bypass due to oscillating. I haven't heard of anyone having your issue with a Pedal Switcher or the GCX (which uses the identical switching arrangement).

From what you describe it isn't possible to determine where the coupling of noise occurs. It may not be within the Pedal Switcher. I would first look at how cables are routed and try moving things around. You should also try changing the cable coming from the guitar.

As always, you can start unplugging things from the rig to find the simplest configuration that still has the problem.

Please try these things are post back what you find.

Thanks,
Josh Fiden
Founder / CEO

[yhertogh]

...I got a response from Zachary Vex:

Sounds like the relay isn't grounding the input/output from the FF when in bypass mode. That is unfortunately quite necessary with the FF, or it will squeal.

Is it true that , when bypassed, the loops are not grounding the inputs and outputs ? Any way to fix this ? The weird thing is that this problem was not initially there, but at that time i might have been using the buffered input, or might have been using a different loop for the FF.

Thanks,
Yves

When a Pedal Switcher loop is bypassed, the SEND (input to the Fuzz Factory) is grounded. The extent of the controls on a Fuzz Factory allow it to operate in conditions that are unstable and prone to oscillation. Ordinarily this would be a bad thing, but in the case of the Fuzz Factory, it lets you get a lot of cool sounds. Most likely the fuzz is generating a high level signal when bypass due to oscillating. I haven't heard of anyone having your issue with a Pedal Switcher or the GCX (which uses the identical switching arrangement).

From what you describe it isn't possible to determine where the coupling of noise occurs. It may not be within the Pedal Switcher. I would first look at how cables are routed and try moving things around. You should also try changing the cable coming from the guitar.

As always, you can start unplugging things from the rig to find the simplest configuration that still has the problem.

Please try these things are post back what you find.

Thanks,
Josh Fiden
Founder / CEO

Josh,

I spent some time yesterday fiddling around with cables and such. I ended up with a very simple configuration : the pedal switcher and the fuzz factory in loop 2. I used the non-buffered input (I tried different guitar cables) and it also squeals. I tried other loops, to the same effect. As soon as i use the buffered input, the squealing goes away. A buffer behind the pedal switcher doesnt help. I want to use the non-buffered input as the fuzz factory is very sensitive to guitar volume as you will probably know, much like the fuzz face.

I also heard back from Zachary from ZVEX and he confirmed that, the true bypass condfiguration of the FF grounds both input and output upon bypass.

Is there a way to mod the pedal switcher such that the loop grounds both send and return on bypass ? If yes i can probably do this myself. But i need to know before i rip my pedalboard apart and open up the pedal switcher.

Thanks!

Yves

[Josh Fiden]

I spent some time yesterday fiddling around with cables and such. I ended up with a very simple configuration : the pedal switcher and the fuzz factory in loop 2. I used the non-buffered input (I tried different guitar cables) and it also squeals. I tried other loops, to the same effect. As soon as i use the buffered input, the squealing goes away. A buffer behind the pedal switcher doesnt help. I want to use the non-buffered input as the fuzz factory is very sensitive to guitar volume as you will probably know, much like the fuzz face.

I also heard back from Zachary from ZVEX and he confirmed that, the true bypass condfiguration of the FF grounds both input and output upon bypass.

Is there a way to mod the pedal switcher such that the loop grounds both send and return on bypass ? If yes i can probably do this myself. But i need to know before i rip my pedalboard apart and open up the pedal switcher.

Thanks!

Yves

There is no simple mod which will ground the return on bypass. Have you tried changing both the cable from guitar to input and from output to amp? Also, you can try a different guitar. How are cables routed? If you post a picture maybe we'll see some obvious issue.

Are you using a Commander for presets on the Pedal Switcher?

Regards,

Josh Fiden
Founder / CEO

[yhertogh]

There is no simple mod which will ground the return on bypass.

That's unfortunate, but i reflects what zach from zvex was assuming: that you werent using a 3pole relay.


I'd also like to mention that the squeeling can be stopped by turning up the gate control of the fuzz factory. So it seems defintely that the fuzz factory even squeels with the input bypassed. Zach also told me that when they bypass the circuitry, they use a relay with three poles which also grounds the output for exactly this reason.

The weird thing is that using the buffered input on the pedal switcher also removes the problem...

Have you tried changing both the cable from guitar to input and from output to amp? Also, you can try a different guitar.

Yes I've tried different cables at both sides. I didnt try a different guitar, but that's kind of besides the point. The guitar i was trying it out with is my main gig guitar and i dont intend to buy a different one just to fix the problem.

How are cables routed? If you post a picture maybe we'll see some obvious issue.

It's a very simple one: guitar-->unbuffered input of pedal switcher-->amp
The fuzz factory is in loop 2 of the pedal switcher. I removed all other loops and the inserted effects for testing purposes and it still squeals.

Are you using a Commander for presets on the Pedal Switcher?

Yes i am

Any ideas are welcome! For the time being i am thinking about either setting my gate control accordingly or using the buffered input. I am confident enough in soldering so if you know if a mod is possible i'd like to find out about it.

Thanks

Yves