New To the Rack World - Need lots of guidance for my New Rig

[martinmxr]

Hi Everyone! I am new here and to the Rack world. For a while I had a pedalboard but I decided to rack my stomp boxes and make a nice rack unit.
I wanna make this as simple as possible, so anyone who replies and myself aren't confused.

I have done some of my homework so I am not that lost, just need the right guidance, and I apologize for the long post. I just wanna get all my confusion and frustration sorted out.

Goal: I want to put my stopmboxes and TC G major 1, to my Rack case and wire everything nice. Simple task, hard for a newbie.

If you can help me with any one my questions, please do so.

I already have:
1. GCX

2. GCP (on the way)

3. SKB 8U rack unit (I needed a 6U, but 8U will do for future upgrades, Plus it was 100$. Not a bad deal)

4. Voodoo Power iso (to power my pedals)

5. 25ft and 15ft Monster 1/4" cable

6. Velcro for pedals

Things I will buy soon:
1. Furman Power Conditioner

2. 50ft long MIDI cable (from BTPA.com, which should power my GCP according to their site)

3. TC Electronic G Major (used off a guy from craigslist, for $225$. Is that a good deal? I think it is, it's on great conditions. But everyone talks about the G major 2, so it makes me worried that if I get the G Major 1, it'll be a bad idea. I would like someone advise on that.

4. Patch cables
For the pedals to the GCX (I have those 25$ mogami cables, like 7 of those, and I don't think I will need them anymore since they are only 8inch long, and I cannot use that to reach to the GCX and pull them out... So I am just going to sell them. Any recommendations to a good model of patch cables?

I heard good things about:
1. Evidence Audio Monorail SIS (Solderless)
2. George L's
3. Lava Cable Tightrope Solder-Free
Which one would you awesome people recommend?

5. Rack sliding shelves

6. A combo AMP (15 to 50 watts) with FX loop
Here is the thing, I gig and move a lot, and I want a good priced 400$ combo amp with FX loop that I can travel with and that is loud enough for when i mic it, it can be heard.

Am I missing anything to make my Rack sound good and work?

Question Time!

Question 1.
If I get a good combo amp (15 to 20w) with FX loop, how would I wire and set up my G major 1 with my TC electronic trinity reverb t2 to go tru the FX loop while using the gcx and control it with my GCP?

Pedals/FX units that will be going on the rack:
1. MXR Super Badass Distortion
2. TS9
3. Timmy (sometime soon when I get more money)
4. Trinity reverb
5. TC G major 2

I am still debating whether or not to keep the TC trinity t2. I just got it a day ago and I have 45 days to return it. I was playing around with it and I love the Reverb effects in it.
Question: is the TC reverb t2 effects the same as the G major reverb, or should I keep both for more options?

I know almost everyone with a rack unit has a rack preamp and what not. I can't have that right now.

Question 2.
I already saw a post about using a buffer with my guitar and the gcx to boost my signal due to very long wires.
OR! Does the GCX have a buffer build in already?
I might be using 50ft wires from where I would be to where my rack is, so I would need a long cable, therefore a good buffer
Is this useful for my situation? http://www.voodoolab.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5090

Question 3.
Rack Shelve
These are the dimensions of my SKB 8U rack
Interior Width 19.00 in
Interior Height 14.00 in
Rack Depth Rail to Rail 15.75 in
Rack Depth Front Rail to Back Lid 18.25 in

How big should my sliding shelve be? I have see ones that are 19" long, 15" long and 13" long.
According to my rack specs, which one should be the best fit?

Question 4.
How Can I use my MXR Noise Clamb to suppress noises while using my GCX?

Right now my pedal chain is: Guitar ->Tuner ->MXR Noise CLamb "IN" and "OUT" -> Chorus-> delay
While the MXR "in" and "out" do that... the Send of the MXR->DS1->TS9->Super B->Return to MXR (like an FX loop but inside the MXR noise clamb)

This has been THE BEST WAY for ME. I know other people use it in different ways.

Question 5.
How can I use my TU-3 in front of me and run down to the GCX?
Thing is, my rack and combo amp will be behind stage. So all I am going to have in front of me will be: GCP, Guitar, Tuner and in the future, a expression pedal for volume and what not.

Should I just simple go: Guitar -> Tuner (long wire down to)-> GCX Guitar IN?

Question 6.
Would my GCP fit nice along with my tuner and expression pedal on my PT-2?

Once again, will I be missing anything on my rack to get it up and running? Like I said, for now it's a simple and small rack.

Thank you very much for the patience and help.

[nyteowl]

Working backwards...

6. Yes, A GCPro, Boss TU-3 and an expression pedal will fit on a Pedaltrain 2 with room to spare.

5. Yes, plug your guitar into the TU-3 Guitar In and run the long cable from the TU-3 Out to your GCX.

4. Personally, I'd leave the Noise Clamp on all the time, and would make the connections as follows: On the GCX, connect the Rear Panel Guitar Out to the Noise Clamp In jack. Connect the Noise Clamp Loop Send to the GCX Loop 1 In jack. Connect the Loop 1 Send/Return jacks to the DS1 and connect a short jumper cable between the Loop 1 Out and the Loop 2 In jacks. Connect the Loop 2 Send/Return jacks to the TS9 and connect a short jumper cable between the Loop 2 Out and the Loop 3 In jacks. Connect the Loop 3 Send/Return jacks to the Super B and connect the Loop 3 Out jack to the Noise Clamp's Loop Return. Connect the Noise Clamp's Out Jack to the GCX Loop 4 In jack and continue the signal chain from there.

3. What you want is an open sliding rack drawer that is 1 rack unit (1-3/4") high, like this one from Middle Atlantic:



It's about 14" (+/-) deep and has adjustable rear mounting tabs in the event your rack has rear rails. Keep in mind that you'll need to account for extra cable length between your pedals and GCX when opening and closing the drawer.

2. The GCX does have a buffered input. You might want to download the manual and check it out while your acquiring all this gear.

1. Whatever amp you end up with, connect the FX Loop Send to any GCX Loop In. Connect the Send/Return to the G-Major's Mono In/Out jacks. Make any other connections using the method described above for the Noise Clamp, connecting the last GCX loop's Out jack to the amp's FX Loop Return. At your price point, you might want to look at used Fender tube amps.

I buy all my MIDI Cables from BTPA; can't go wrong there, and I've been using George L cables for years with great success. The only time a George L cable will fail, and I repeat, the ONLY time one will fail is if it is not properly assembled.

Last but not least, I'd recommend not buying that G-Major. Shop around, be patient, and you'll find a G-Major II for about the same price. Look at it this way; you buy the GM for $225, and then decide you really want the GM-2. Now you have to sell the GM for less than you paid for it, and still pony up the $$$ to buy the GM2, which will now end up costing you more than it would have if you'd just bought one in the first place.

Hope all this helps...

[martinmxr]

nyteowl

Dude You are AWESOME! Thank you so much for taking your time and effort to help me out on this. You have no idea how much I have been breaking my back, doing hours and hours of reading and research to find my answers.

BTW, when you say "The GCX does have a buffered input"
That means that the input of the guitar "In" is already buffered and ready to transmit clean signal? or you mean that it has an input for buffers to go in to?
like in this case viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5090
You think if I follow the way they talk about of how to hook it up, will work for me?

" Guitar->GCX front end feedthru
feedthru out back end of GCX->input of loop 1
Send loop 1->GCX front GUITAR IN
Buffered out rear of GCX->return of loop 1
Loop 1 output-> INput loop 2 "

I also see that you wrote this
Guitar cable -> Loop 1 In
Loop 1 Send -> Front Panel Guitar In
Rear Panel Guitar Out -> Loop 1 Return
Loop 1 Out -> Loop 2 In

So, If I want my signal to be buffered all the time, Should I do either or those steps above. Or
Just plug my guitar in the GCX front and BAM! Will be buffered? Or are these examples not helped at all cuz I have another situation?

Remember I will be using 50ft long cables MIDI and 1/4"s, the stage where I play is HUGE.

Also, according to my SKB RACK 8U specs, is this rack sliding drawer good for me? http://www.ebay.com/itm/111528210183?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

specs of this drawer

SPECS:
• TRAY SLIDES OUT 13.5" FROM RACK RAILS
• TRAY DIMS ARE 1.75"H X 16.5"W X 15"D
• WEIGH ONLY 7.4 LBS

Also, I agree with you, I always leave my MRX gate ON. Its a pedal that never goes off. And once I start wireing all this things together, I will let you know in case I need more assistance.

Once again, You are awesome my friend. Thank you so m u c h!

[nyteowl]

Happy to be of assistance. There was a point in time, my friend, when I was exactly where you are at today, so I know how frustrating it can get when one first jumps into the deep end of this pool.

The Feed Thru labeled Guitar In on the front panel of the GCX is buffered to the Rear Panel Guitar Out. See Page 5 in the GCX Manual for more info on this. You would only want to do this:

"Guitar->GCX front end feedthru
feedthru out back end of GCX->input of loop 1
Send loop 1->GCX front GUITAR IN
Buffered out rear of GCX->return of loop 1
Loop 1 output-> INput loop 2 "

...if you wanted to switch between a buffered and non-buffered signal. Since you'll be running a 50 foot cable, you might want to skip this and, as you said, just go Cable -> Guitar In -> Guitar Out -> Noise Clamp In -> Noise Clamp Loop Send -> GCX Loop 1, but then again, it wouldn't hurt to experiment, try both ways, and go with whichever you think sounds/works best. Probably wouldn't hurt to pick up that buffer you have pictured and experiment with using that as well. Conversely, have you considered using a wireless? Lot's of good ones available in the used market, and going wireless would eliminate the need for a 50 foot cable and a buffer.

Yes, that drawer will work for you, but there's no mention if it "locks" into place when closed, whereas the Middle Atlantic drawer does have a friction lock that will keep it from opening unless you physically pull on the front of the drawer. If you shop around, you could probably find a used MA Drawer at a much better price point than a new one.

Two more things you might find interesting. Here's some George L jumper cables I made for connecting GCX Loop outs to adjacent GCX Loop Ins...



...and this is what I've been using for the last fifteen years instead of Velcro to fasten pedals to pedal boards and rack shelves.



A 1" square cut into quarters is enough to hold a Boss pedal securely in place on wood or metal. When the time comes to rearrange your pedals - and that time always comes - just slip a flat blade screwdriver underneath and pry the pedal up. The tape easily peels off any surface and leaves no residue behind.

[martinmxr]

@nyteowl BRO! You are amazing!

If you don't mind i have a few more questions!

If I buy a wireless system from guitar To Guitar In. How would I use the tuner? Would it go:

Guitar (15ft cable) -> tuner IN -> wireless receiver ~~~ transmitter -> GCX Guitar In

But without my tuner, it would just be
Guitar > receiver ~~~ transmitter > GCX IN
WHICH would be awesome. But I need the tuner.Unless... If I can use the front feed thru for my tuner somehow... Or use an Expression pedal with a tuner out...? Would these choices work?

Plus we have a HUGE heavy curtain. Like in those big theater. Wouldn't my signal get interrupted by the curtain? Therefore I need to have a visible line of sight for the transmitter talk to the receiver.

So if my rig is back stage, how would I use the wireless system?

Also
This is something I just saw. Can I use my Volume pedal as an expression pedal using this method with GCP and control my Volume and whatever the expre pedal can do, along side with the TC G major?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1ia2h__JtM#t=114

I have Boss FV-50H volume pedal.

And do You recommend getting a big enough drawer to put all my wires and cords inside my rack case, since I will have about 3U left.

BTW: On Monday I am buying a used Middle Atlantic SS sliding rack shelf for $55. I think is a good deal. It locks opened and closed positions.

[martinmxr]

@nyteowl Also, I am a little confused!

When you say

Connect the Send/Return to the G-Major's Mono In/Out jacks... connecting the last GCX loop's Out jack to the amp's FX Loop Return.

You mean, taking 2 cables
1 in the "send" to the the "in" of the G major

And "Return" to the "out" of the G major...

But the you said that the last "out" jack of the GCX goes to the return.

So I am a little unclear with the instructions.

ALSO
What do you think about the TC trinity t2?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK4i-FfFobU
Do you think G major 2 will cover those reverb effects or should I keep both? G Major and Trinity?

I apologize for any problems.

[nyteowl]

You should be able to use your Boss FV-50H as an expression pedal when connected to your GCPro, but I'm not 100% certain about that. I seem to recall trying both a 50H and a 50L at one point and one of them worked and the other did not; I just don't recall which. Also, if you connect your 50H to the GCPro for use as an expression pedal, the Tuner Out jack will not function as there will be no guitar signal going through the pedal

You have this backwards:
Guitar (15ft cable) -> tuner In -> wireless receiver ~~~ transmitter -> GCX Guitar In
Should be
Guitar (15ft cable) -> tuner In -> wireless transmitter ~~~ wireless receiver -> GCX Guitar In
Or you could try
Guitar (15ft cable) -> Boss FV-50H In -> Boss FV-50H Out -> wireless transmitter ~~~ wireless receiver -> GCX Guitar In
Boss FV-50H Tuner Out -> Boss TU-3

As long as there are no metallic fibers in the curtain, it should not pose a problem for a wireless.

With regard to this: "Connect the Send/Return to the G-Major's Mono In/Out jacks... connecting the last GCX loop's Out jack to the amp's FX Loop Return." The Send jack of any GCX Loop will always be connected to the In jack of an effect, and that GCX Loop's corresponding Return jack will always be connected to the Out jack of that same effect.

What I said about the last Out jack referred to multiple GCX Loops being in an amplifier's FX Loop. The amp's FX Send jack would be connected to the IN jack of the first GCX Loop involved and the Out jack of the last GCX Loop involved would be connected to the amp's FX Return jack.

[martinmxr]

@nyteowl Once again, Thank you very much!

BTW, Seems like the Boss volume pedal 50H is a "high impedance pedal" and is better option for expression than the 50L since is a low impedance.

Once Again, Thank you! You are freaking awesome!

PS: I saw your Reverb store. you have pretty good gear!

[martinmxr]

Hey, check this out. Seems like I have 2 problems (so far)

1. The Rack case is skewed to the left.

2. The Sliding Rack shelf has a very tall platform. So the pedals won't have enough room to fit in. That is why you saw I used an extra unit.

I am hoping if I do enough pressure to the case with an heavy object and skewed to the opposite side, the unit will fit right in.

And about the sliding shelf, I am just going to sell it and get another sliding shelf.

If you know of a good deal somewhere, let me know.

Other then that I think I am set for the rack unit. Just need to get few more items to complete my system.

Also, I have a small issue, or I am perhaps a little confused. It's about the patching with the pedals and G major and the GCX. And wireless systems and the tuner.

Hopefully it'll make sense... Here the patch I got from you on this thread. Pay attention to step # 9.

For the Noise Gate and Preamp Pedals:
CHAIN
1. Connect the "Guitar OUT" of the rear GCX to Noise Clamp "IN"
2. Connect "SEND" of Clamp to GCX loop "1" IN
3. Connect PEDAL 1 "IN" and "OUT" to loop "1" Send and return
4. Connect a short cable from loop "1" OUT to loop 2 IN
5. Connect the Loop 2 Send/Return jacks to PEDAL 2
6. Connect a jumper cable from the Loop 2 OUT to Loop 3 IN
7. Connect the Loop 3 SEND/RETURN jacks to PEDAL 3
8. Connect the Loop 3 OUT to the Noise Clamp's Loop RETURN
9. Connect the Noise Clamp's OUT Jack to the GCX Loop 4 IN

*If you need to connect more pedals, repeat the process*

*Connecting G Major and Trinity to FX loop*
Here is my struggle

1. Connect the FX Loop SEND (From AMP) to any GCX Loop In

You are telling me to do this, when the Noise clamp's OUT is going to LOOP 4 IN

Question #1 ... How can I connect Clamp's OUT to loop 4 IN when you are telling me to use my AMPS fx loop SEND to GCX loop IN ... In need to use loop 4. But apperently there are 2 things going in the same IN

Another confusion

2. Connect Send/Return of LOOP 4 to the G-Major's Mono In/Out jacks



Sorry for the huge photo

Also another comfusion, you said to "Connect Send/Return of LOOP 4 to the G-Major's Mono In/Out jacks"

According to the picture
Question #2 which input and output you are talking about? Balanced Input Left (mono) and Balanced Output Left (mono) ?
Are those the ones that go in the Send/Return of the GCX Loop 4?

And here is another big one
On another chat you said

guitar -> transmitter -> ~~~ -> receiver _> GCX Guitar In

if you got a second Relay 30, you'd put that receiver on your pedal board next to your tuner, and use the mtethod previously described:

Loop 1 Send -> transmitter -> ~~~ -> pedal board receiver -> Tuner In.

If I do the 2 wireless systems
Question #3 how is the chain (the 9 steps mentioned above) going to be affected? that means I need to change the order of the loops and that just fried my brain.

Also, In case I can only do 1 wireless system, you said:

...the ideal method would be run your signal from the GCX Guitar OUT to the Loop 1 IN, run the long 1/4" cable from the Loop 1 SEND to the Tuner IN, and then connect a short jumper cable between the Loop 1 OUT and the Loop 2 IN.

Question #4 how am I going to use my noise gate if I do this (which is an awesome idea as well)

So lets say if i do this, both methods (full wireless or wired tuner) requires me to do LOOP 1 OUT to LOOP 2 IN , so how do I use my noise gate from there and follow the chain above?

You have been and amazing help Jack, you are a BEAST!

[nyteowl]

And away we go...

1. Unless your rack is seriously skewed, as you start adding rack units to it, they should pull the rack back into alignment, as long as you make sure you're properly lining up the mounting holes.

2. You've really got me confused with this sliding rack shelf business. As per your pictures, it appears you're using a sliding rack drawer which you have installed upside down in order to use it as a shelf, hence the "very tall platform." So, by placing your pedals on top of the "shelf" you now need to leave the two rack spaces above the "shelf" open to accommodate your pedals, whereas if you installed the drawer properly you could mount your pedals inside the drawer, taking full advantage of the 1-3/4" of drawer depth you're currently wasting with it mounted upside down, and you'll only need to leave one rack space open above the drawer to accommodate the height of your pedals.

Question #1
I've reviewed all the comments I've made so far and cannot find where I suggested connecting your amp's FX Send to the GCX Loop 4 In. What I said was to connect the amp's FX Send to any GCX Loop In.

You're running two independent signal chains here, the first one being in front of the amp that starts with your guitar and ends by going into your amp's front panel Input jack, and the second one being in the amp's FX Loop. If you're not running anything else in front of the amp after the Noise Clamp that you want to switch via a GCX Loop, simply connect the Noise Clamp Out jack to the Amp's Input jack.

Which brings us to: Connect Send/Return of LOOP 4 to the G-Major's Mono In/Out jacks.

Again, I never specified connecting the G-Major to any particular Loop.

Question 2:
Which input and output you are talking about? Balanced Input Left (mono) and Balanced Output Left (mono)? Are those the ones that go in the Send/Return of the GCX Loop 4?

There are no other inputs and outputs on this device labeled (mono).

Question 3
Using one or two wireless units will not affect your signal chain at all, nor is there any reason to change the order of your loops other than to shift them over to accommodate your tuner (see below). The wireless units are simply installed in place of guitar cables.

Question 4
You would still connect your Noise Clamp as described in my original post, with the Noise Clamp Send feeding the Loop In, and you would need to shift your three pedals over to Loops 2, 3, and 4 to accommodate your tuner, which will now be in Loop 1.

At this point I think you might greatly benefit by downloading and reviewing the GCPro, GCX, and G-Major manuals, and by sketching out your signal routing on a GCX worksheet, which is available for download at the bottom of the product page.

Last but not least, good score on that Traynor amp.