I'm building a new rig and could use some feedback.
I have a Ground Control Pro and a GCX switcher I've been using for some time. I also have a second GCX switcher I'm not currently using...
I have two amps.
1. EVH 5150 Mini 50W
2. Customized Blackstar HT-Stage 60 w/RJM gizmo for MIDI switching..
I was using an AXE-FX II as a modeler, but I want to dedicate this box as a effects processor I can available in front and in the effects loops of the two amps above.
I have a ISP Decimator Pro Rack G that I want to be able to switch between the front end and effects loops of both amps.
Other effects:
GMajor2 that I want to use in either of the amps effects loops.
Dunlop Rack Wah that I want to be able to use in front of either amp.
VOX Satchurator that I want to be able to use in front of either amp.
Electro Harmonix POG2 that I want to use in either of the amps effects loops.
TC Electronics Polytune that I want to be able to use in front of either amp.
Boss Acoustic Simulator that I want to be able to use in front of either amp.
I have a couple of Line6 wireless units and three guitars I use regularly.. I have a Ibanez JS-2400 and an EVH Wolfgang that I tune to one Line6 receiver. I have a customized Fender strat that has a LR Baggs piezo pickup and two Line6 transmitters on the strap. One transmitter goes to the same receiver that the other two guitars go to, and the other I want to route to the Boss Simulator and then either amp with the clean channel selected while I use the other amp for the magnetic pickups.
Sounds complicated, but I'm looking for advice on whether I should even try to tackle or hire someone to build it for me...
Thanks!!
Steve G.
New Rig Help Needed
Re: New Rig Help Needed
That's a rather ambitious/challenging project for sure, but it should be doable if you use both GCX units.
I think your next step should be determining the pre-sets you will need. Besides placing your individual effects in front of the amp and/or in the loop, it's important to have an understand of how all of these effects will be used in a live application in order to suggest the optimal to make the connections.
I think your next step should be determining the pre-sets you will need. Besides placing your individual effects in front of the amp and/or in the loop, it's important to have an understand of how all of these effects will be used in a live application in order to suggest the optimal to make the connections.
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Re: New Rig Help Needed
Good points!
My current GCP setup has the top eight buttons as IA buttons and the bottom four and song presets. However, I haven't used this playing live as of yet.
What I was doing before in a live setting was the 10PRST/BANK option. Then each button corresponded to a song or part of a song I my band was playing. I liked this method a lot since I pushed a button once and everything was set up for me. I had some songs where I needed three buttons because the song has three unique sounds I needed to generate during the song. I would just switch back and forth between the three buttons and everything worked fine. The only "problem" I ran into was when I had a need for multiple presets and I had reached the capacity on a single bank. I didn't want to have to switch the Bank UP/DOWN switch AND the defined preset button during a song. I'm doing pretty complicated guitar parts and singing. I don't need the extra hassle of tapping multiple buttons in the middle of a song.... So I avoided this by making sure I started a set with button 1 for song part 1 and work my way through the first bank as the set progressed. If I found I was going to need multiple presets for a song and I had say only one free button on that bank I would leave the button/bank empty and start at the beginning of the next bank. Sounds wasteful, but it actually only happened once. Also it turned out since I was covering essentially the same guitar players all the time I could reuse presets from prior songs. It turned out I never needed more the 30 distinctive presets.
So basically I would program the presets in my studio first, and I would need to be able to route signals like I mentioned in my previous post.
My current GCP setup has the top eight buttons as IA buttons and the bottom four and song presets. However, I haven't used this playing live as of yet.
What I was doing before in a live setting was the 10PRST/BANK option. Then each button corresponded to a song or part of a song I my band was playing. I liked this method a lot since I pushed a button once and everything was set up for me. I had some songs where I needed three buttons because the song has three unique sounds I needed to generate during the song. I would just switch back and forth between the three buttons and everything worked fine. The only "problem" I ran into was when I had a need for multiple presets and I had reached the capacity on a single bank. I didn't want to have to switch the Bank UP/DOWN switch AND the defined preset button during a song. I'm doing pretty complicated guitar parts and singing. I don't need the extra hassle of tapping multiple buttons in the middle of a song.... So I avoided this by making sure I started a set with button 1 for song part 1 and work my way through the first bank as the set progressed. If I found I was going to need multiple presets for a song and I had say only one free button on that bank I would leave the button/bank empty and start at the beginning of the next bank. Sounds wasteful, but it actually only happened once. Also it turned out since I was covering essentially the same guitar players all the time I could reuse presets from prior songs. It turned out I never needed more the 30 distinctive presets.
So basically I would program the presets in my studio first, and I would need to be able to route signals like I mentioned in my previous post.
Re: New Rig Help Needed
Ok. So here is my first crack at the "amp front side" of this setup. I'm working on the effects loops integration for both amp separately.
I want to be able to use the both my AxeFX II and my GMajor II in either amp's effect loops while maintaining the noise gate for each loop. That part I'm scratching my head on right now.
Unlike the two GCX example on the Voodoo Labs web site I don't think I really need to connect the two GCX together. I have the GMajor, the second mono channel of the AxeFXII and the POG I want to be able to connect to either effects loop.
I want to be able to use the both my AxeFX II and my GMajor II in either amp's effect loops while maintaining the noise gate for each loop. That part I'm scratching my head on right now.
Unlike the two GCX example on the Voodoo Labs web site I don't think I really need to connect the two GCX together. I have the GMajor, the second mono channel of the AxeFXII and the POG I want to be able to connect to either effects loop.
Re: New Rig Help Needed
Off the top of my head...
You don't need a cable running from the Polytune Out back to the Loop 1 Return. Eliminating that cable will isolate your tuner from the rest of your signal chain when Loop 1 is active, resulting in silent tuning.
Loop 6 on the diagram shows an ISP G-String II while your original post said you'd be using a ProRack G. If you have the G-String II then you're good to go, but if you have a ProRack G you might want to try connecting the GCX Rear panel Guitar Out jack to the Channel 1 Input of the ProRack G and then connect the ProRack's Channel 1 Output to the Loop 1 In jack. You would then connect the Loop 6 Send/Return jacks to the ProRack's Channel 2 In/Out jacks.
I also think you're wasting a loop by using Loops 7 and 8 to each feed a single amp. As pictured, you will not be able to run the amps together; you'll only be able to run one amp or the other, and if that's what you want to do, I would connect the Loop 7 Out jack to whichever amp you use the most, thus making it your default amp, and connect the Loop 7 Send jack to the other amp. That way, you only need one loop to choose which amp is active. However, I see another issue here. In your OP you wrote that you will want to use both amps simultaneously, with your Boss Acoustic Sim feeding the clean channel of one amp while using your magnetic pickups with the other amp. That will not be possible with the routing pictured in your diagram, but I'll resolve this for you later.
To get started with the FX Loop integration, you'll want to connect the FX Send of Amp 1 to the In jack of, let's say Loop 1 of your second GCX, and the FX Send of Amp 2 to the Return Jack of Loop 1 on GCX 2, with the Loop 1 Out going to the Loop 2 In. Per your OP you want to share the Pog, G-Major 2, and Axe FX-II, so they would go in the Send/Return jacks of Loops 2, 3, and 4 in whatever order you desire, and the Loop 4 Out would connect to the Loop 5 In. The Loop 5 Out would go to the Amp 1 FX Return, and the Loop 5 Send would go to the Amp 2 FX Return.
Very Important: When you program your presets, it is imperative to ensure Loops 1 and 5 are either both active or inactive to ensure signal integrity. While both loops are inactive your effects will be routed thru the FX Loop of Amp 1; when both loops are active they go thru the Amp 2 FX Loop. If you have one loop active while the other is inactive, you will be routing the preamp section of one amp, along with its FX Send signal, to the power amp section and FX return of the other amp, which could be a recipe for disaster, so do be careful there.
Getting back to GCX 1, you're going to need a splitter to connect the Loop 6 Out to the In jacks of both Loops 7 and 8, similar to what's shown in the diagram on Page 9 of your GCX Manual. The Loop 7 Send jack will connect to the Amp1 Input, but the Loop 8 Send jack will connect to the GCX2/Loop 6 In jack and the GCX2/Loop 6 Out jack will connect to the Amp2 Input. Now comes the tricky part: the wireless signal from the Baggs Piezo pickup will go directly to the Boss Acoustic Sim, and the Out of the Boss Pedal will connect to the GCX2/Loop6 Return jack.
So now, on GCX 1, when Loop 7 is on and Loop 8 off, you're just using Amp1. By that same token, when Loop 7 is Off and Loop 8 is On you'll be feeding GCX2/Loop 6 and just using Amp 2. Now comes the fun part, where you activate GCX2/Loop 6 and feed the Baggs signal from the Boss Acoustic Sim to Amp 2. This allows you to have just the acoustic tones from the Boss pedal coming from Amp 2, but if you activate Loop 7 you'll also have your magnetic signal going thru Amp 1. If you prefer using the Boss pedal with Amp 1 as opposed to Amp 2, just swap the amp locations out and you'll be good to go.
This actually turned out to be less complicated than I first thought it would, and I think you've got a pretty good starting point. Good luck, and let us know how things work out.
You don't need a cable running from the Polytune Out back to the Loop 1 Return. Eliminating that cable will isolate your tuner from the rest of your signal chain when Loop 1 is active, resulting in silent tuning.
Loop 6 on the diagram shows an ISP G-String II while your original post said you'd be using a ProRack G. If you have the G-String II then you're good to go, but if you have a ProRack G you might want to try connecting the GCX Rear panel Guitar Out jack to the Channel 1 Input of the ProRack G and then connect the ProRack's Channel 1 Output to the Loop 1 In jack. You would then connect the Loop 6 Send/Return jacks to the ProRack's Channel 2 In/Out jacks.
I also think you're wasting a loop by using Loops 7 and 8 to each feed a single amp. As pictured, you will not be able to run the amps together; you'll only be able to run one amp or the other, and if that's what you want to do, I would connect the Loop 7 Out jack to whichever amp you use the most, thus making it your default amp, and connect the Loop 7 Send jack to the other amp. That way, you only need one loop to choose which amp is active. However, I see another issue here. In your OP you wrote that you will want to use both amps simultaneously, with your Boss Acoustic Sim feeding the clean channel of one amp while using your magnetic pickups with the other amp. That will not be possible with the routing pictured in your diagram, but I'll resolve this for you later.
To get started with the FX Loop integration, you'll want to connect the FX Send of Amp 1 to the In jack of, let's say Loop 1 of your second GCX, and the FX Send of Amp 2 to the Return Jack of Loop 1 on GCX 2, with the Loop 1 Out going to the Loop 2 In. Per your OP you want to share the Pog, G-Major 2, and Axe FX-II, so they would go in the Send/Return jacks of Loops 2, 3, and 4 in whatever order you desire, and the Loop 4 Out would connect to the Loop 5 In. The Loop 5 Out would go to the Amp 1 FX Return, and the Loop 5 Send would go to the Amp 2 FX Return.
Very Important: When you program your presets, it is imperative to ensure Loops 1 and 5 are either both active or inactive to ensure signal integrity. While both loops are inactive your effects will be routed thru the FX Loop of Amp 1; when both loops are active they go thru the Amp 2 FX Loop. If you have one loop active while the other is inactive, you will be routing the preamp section of one amp, along with its FX Send signal, to the power amp section and FX return of the other amp, which could be a recipe for disaster, so do be careful there.
Getting back to GCX 1, you're going to need a splitter to connect the Loop 6 Out to the In jacks of both Loops 7 and 8, similar to what's shown in the diagram on Page 9 of your GCX Manual. The Loop 7 Send jack will connect to the Amp1 Input, but the Loop 8 Send jack will connect to the GCX2/Loop 6 In jack and the GCX2/Loop 6 Out jack will connect to the Amp2 Input. Now comes the tricky part: the wireless signal from the Baggs Piezo pickup will go directly to the Boss Acoustic Sim, and the Out of the Boss Pedal will connect to the GCX2/Loop6 Return jack.
So now, on GCX 1, when Loop 7 is on and Loop 8 off, you're just using Amp1. By that same token, when Loop 7 is Off and Loop 8 is On you'll be feeding GCX2/Loop 6 and just using Amp 2. Now comes the fun part, where you activate GCX2/Loop 6 and feed the Baggs signal from the Boss Acoustic Sim to Amp 2. This allows you to have just the acoustic tones from the Boss pedal coming from Amp 2, but if you activate Loop 7 you'll also have your magnetic signal going thru Amp 1. If you prefer using the Boss pedal with Amp 1 as opposed to Amp 2, just swap the amp locations out and you'll be good to go.
This actually turned out to be less complicated than I first thought it would, and I think you've got a pretty good starting point. Good luck, and let us know how things work out.
For Sale: Original DMC GCX in Excellent Condition ($275) and a far more versatile SoundSculpture GL also in Excellent Condition ($1750). Free CONUS Shipping.
Re: New Rig Help Needed
Thanks nyteowl,
I've incorporate some of your suggestions.
I researched in the manual and found
GUITAR IN - buffered feed thru to the GUITAR OUT on the rear panel.
Also normals to the FEED THRU on the rear panel for splitting.
So I hung the tuner off of the port....
Also I thought of doing something a little different since I have 2 (3 actually) Line 6 wireless units.
Not sure what mixer I will use in the example. Looking for suggestions there.
I do have a ProRack G (not the stereo mod version) and I think I still need a noise gate in my fx loop, but not sure how to incorporate.
I've incorporate some of your suggestions.
I researched in the manual and found
GUITAR IN - buffered feed thru to the GUITAR OUT on the rear panel.
Also normals to the FEED THRU on the rear panel for splitting.
So I hung the tuner off of the port....
Also I thought of doing something a little different since I have 2 (3 actually) Line 6 wireless units.
Not sure what mixer I will use in the example. Looking for suggestions there.
I do have a ProRack G (not the stereo mod version) and I think I still need a noise gate in my fx loop, but not sure how to incorporate.
Re: New Rig Help Needed
My tired old eyes couldn't read that diagram very well, so I had to blow it up some. Kinda blurry, but I can make things out a little better.
Some comments on your new design:
I know the manual says you can connect your tuner to the Feed Thru jack, but doing so merely splits your guitar signal, so you'll still have a hot guitar signal going through your GCX. Bye-bye silent tuning...
Loop 6 will only let you to switch between the Blackstar and the 5150; it will not let you run them simultaneously.
Why did you opt to add a mixer to your rig? The only benefit I see is, it will let you blend a clean magnetic signal with the piezo signal on the Blackstar, but if you do that Loop 6 will effectively remove the 5150 from your signal chain. I was under the impression that you wanted to run the piezo signal separately through one amp and a clean magnetic signal through the other amp, but apparently I misunderstood. Still, it seems like you're opting to add an additional piece of gear and getting less versatility in return.
Last but not least, your diagram has the 5150 FX Send connected to the Loop 1 Send instead of the Loop 1 In.
Getting back to those Feed Thru jacks, if you move your tuner back to a loop I'm quite sure you could plug your second wireless receiver into the Front Panel Feed Thru jack and use the Rear Panel Feed Thru jack to feed the Boss Acoustic Sim Loop.
Some comments on your new design:
I know the manual says you can connect your tuner to the Feed Thru jack, but doing so merely splits your guitar signal, so you'll still have a hot guitar signal going through your GCX. Bye-bye silent tuning...
Loop 6 will only let you to switch between the Blackstar and the 5150; it will not let you run them simultaneously.
Why did you opt to add a mixer to your rig? The only benefit I see is, it will let you blend a clean magnetic signal with the piezo signal on the Blackstar, but if you do that Loop 6 will effectively remove the 5150 from your signal chain. I was under the impression that you wanted to run the piezo signal separately through one amp and a clean magnetic signal through the other amp, but apparently I misunderstood. Still, it seems like you're opting to add an additional piece of gear and getting less versatility in return.
Last but not least, your diagram has the 5150 FX Send connected to the Loop 1 Send instead of the Loop 1 In.
Getting back to those Feed Thru jacks, if you move your tuner back to a loop I'm quite sure you could plug your second wireless receiver into the Front Panel Feed Thru jack and use the Rear Panel Feed Thru jack to feed the Boss Acoustic Sim Loop.
For Sale: Original DMC GCX in Excellent Condition ($275) and a far more versatile SoundSculpture GL also in Excellent Condition ($1750). Free CONUS Shipping.
Re: New Rig Help Needed
Nyteowl: Awesome help! Thank you very much. I've made a couple of changes, but first I wanted to elaborate on how I will use my guitar/amp combinations.
1. EVH Wolgang - Want to be able to run that through either amp
2. Ibanez JS-2400 - Want to be able to run that through either amp
3. Fender Strat - Want to run peizo and magnetics pickups ONLY through the Blackstar Combo.
I don't think the tuner is going to work for me in a loop after I thought about how I'm going to program the GCP. I won't have any IA button since I'm planning on using the 10PRST/Bank option. Today I have the Polytune tuner between my Line 6 receiver and the Guitar In on the GCX. This seems to work fine since when I push the button on the Polytune in for tuning in mutes the signal. Then when I'm done tuning and press the button again the Polytune acts as a true bypass.
Here the latest configuration:
1. EVH Wolgang - Want to be able to run that through either amp
2. Ibanez JS-2400 - Want to be able to run that through either amp
3. Fender Strat - Want to run peizo and magnetics pickups ONLY through the Blackstar Combo.
I don't think the tuner is going to work for me in a loop after I thought about how I'm going to program the GCP. I won't have any IA button since I'm planning on using the 10PRST/Bank option. Today I have the Polytune tuner between my Line 6 receiver and the Guitar In on the GCX. This seems to work fine since when I push the button on the Polytune in for tuning in mutes the signal. Then when I'm done tuning and press the button again the Polytune acts as a true bypass.
Here the latest configuration:
Re: New Rig Help Needed
Thanks so much for enlarged diagram. It was a lot easier for me to read than the other one.
Since you do want to run both your Magnetic and Piezo signals through the Blackstar simultaneously, you are going to need a mixer of some sort to blend the two signals together. Your options here include pedal-type mixers such as the Boss LS-2, small stand-alone mixers like the Nady MM-141 or MM-242, or if you have room in your rack, a single-space rack-mount line mixer. although the latter is probably the priciest option and more than likely would be overkill for your application.
Your new configuration with the wireless into the Polytune and then into the Guitar In resolves the silent tuning issue quite nicely, so I think our work here is done. All you have to do now is put everything together and let us know how it all works out.
Since you do want to run both your Magnetic and Piezo signals through the Blackstar simultaneously, you are going to need a mixer of some sort to blend the two signals together. Your options here include pedal-type mixers such as the Boss LS-2, small stand-alone mixers like the Nady MM-141 or MM-242, or if you have room in your rack, a single-space rack-mount line mixer. although the latter is probably the priciest option and more than likely would be overkill for your application.
Your new configuration with the wireless into the Polytune and then into the Guitar In resolves the silent tuning issue quite nicely, so I think our work here is done. All you have to do now is put everything together and let us know how it all works out.
For Sale: Original DMC GCX in Excellent Condition ($275) and a far more versatile SoundSculpture GL also in Excellent Condition ($1750). Free CONUS Shipping.
Re: New Rig Help Needed
Thanks for all your help with this.
I most likely will use either a Palmer Duetto or similar type device to merge the two signals into the Blackstar.
Also, I found having a noise gate coming out of my amp effects loops was very beneficial for preventing squeal before sending to my effects loops chain. So I'm going to still utilize my dual channel Decimator ProRack G and route the send from my EVH and Blackstar guitar amp's effect loop to a channel on the Decimator. EVH Send to Channel 1 and Blackstar Send to Channel two.
I'll post the final diagram and let the forum know how this works.
I most likely will use either a Palmer Duetto or similar type device to merge the two signals into the Blackstar.
Also, I found having a noise gate coming out of my amp effects loops was very beneficial for preventing squeal before sending to my effects loops chain. So I'm going to still utilize my dual channel Decimator ProRack G and route the send from my EVH and Blackstar guitar amp's effect loop to a channel on the Decimator. EVH Send to Channel 1 and Blackstar Send to Channel two.
I'll post the final diagram and let the forum know how this works.