Switching pedal switcher with 3rd party midi controller

[Loss Mentality]

Hi -

I have a question regarding the Pedal Switcher. I realize after reading the instructions that the MIDI presets can't be changed for it without use of the Commander, but I was wondering what the Switcher's default MIDI presets are? In other words, if I was to connect a MIDI controller to it, what MIDI commands would I need to send to the Switcher in order to switch between all possible combinations of the four channels? 

Or is this not possible because the Pedal Switcher uses some proprietary non-MIDI protocol that only Voodoo Labs products (e.g. Commander) understand?

Thanks,
Jeff

[nyteowl]

From the FAQ section of the Pedal Switcher Manual:

Can I use a third-party MIDI footcontroller with Pedal Switcher?
Not really. You can call up the Pedal Switcher’s presets with MIDI program change commands, but there is no way to save or modify presets without Commander.

[Loss Mentality]

thanks, yes, I'd already read that. My question was not could I save presets, but what the default presets are so that I can just use them. I don't need to modify them. I just want to use whatever presets are already there. So maybe this is a question for voodoo Labs support as the average user may not know (for some odd reason these forums are the only way to contact voodoo support). But to reiterate:

What are the default pedal switcher midi presets? My reading of the faq seems to say that if I know these I can use a 3rd party controller to switch Pedal Switcher. Thanks!

[nyteowl]

To reiterate:

"...there is no way to save or modify presets without Commander."

Out of the box and connected to a Commander or GCPro, those controllers will merely turn the Pedal Switcher loops on or off by depressing the corresponding buttons. You need a Commander to program Pedal Switcher presets, and those presets are stored on the Commander, not on the Pedal Switcher(s). Consider the fact that, when connected to a GCPro/GCX rig, a Pedal Switcher is recognized as a second GCX unit and adds four more loops to the system, and just as the GCX does not have the capability to store presets, neither does the Pedal Switcher. Therefore, there are no default Pedal Switcher presets.

If I am wrong, I am sure someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in and correct me, but I am rather confident my logic is sound.

[Loss Mentality]

I appreciate your help Nyteowl, but the language of the faq we're discussing doesn't imply that there are no presets available on the the Pedal Switcher. In fact, it comes right out and states the exact opposite: Here is a direct quote from the faq: "You can call up the Pedal Switcher’s presets with MIDI program change commands"

It states point-blank that the pedal switcher has presets and that they can be used with MIDI program change commands. Perhaps I was not clear in asking my question in my OP, but that is all I am seeking to do. Maybe you thought I was trying to do something more, in which case, yes, I agreee, you need a commander for sure, but I knew that before I posted.

But, regardless of all of this, last night I found an email address for Voodoo labs (info@voodoolabs.com), and I wrote, asking basically the same thing I did in my OP. They were wonderfully prompt with their response (about an hour I think), and I got the following from someone named Ben.

====
In order to control Pedal Switcher with a third party MIDI controller, you would first need to send the following hex SysEx string:

F0 00 00 07 01 08 10 F7

Once, this SysEx message is received, Pedal Switcher loops 1 - 4 will respond to Control Change messages 80-83 on MIDI channel 16. Note: The SysEx message need only be sent once (each time Pedal Switcher is powered on).
====

So, the pedal switcher is indeed midi controllable without a commander using its default presets - one just needs a way to send a sysex message. While that's easy to do if you want to hook it up to a computer/DAW, I don't want to do that on my guitar rig every time I turn the rig's power on, and my MIDI controller footboard can't send user-defined sysex messages. Oh well, I'll have to figure something out.

Again, thanks for attempting to help.

[nyteowl]

I am sorry I was not able to assist you, but happy to hear you got the information you needed/wanted from Ben.

[atchoo]

In order to control Pedal Switcher with a third party MIDI controller, you would first need to send the following hex SysEx string:

F0 00 00 07 01 08 10 F7

Once, this SysEx message is received, Pedal Switcher loops 1 - 4 will respond to Control Change messages 80-83 on MIDI channel 16. Note: The SysEx message need only be sent once (each time Pedal Switcher is powered on).
====

Hello,

I just figured out that you can also set the Pedal Switcher to use CC 90-93, CC 100-103 and CC 110-113.

Since the SysEx quoted above is the same control message as the first GC connected is automatically transmitting at power-up, I took a wild guess and modified "01" to "02", to "emulate" the second Ground Control in line (#2). Lo and behold, it worked.

From this info, I concluded that the Pedal Switcher's internal patch table looks a bit like this:
GC/Commander #1: CC 80-83
GC/Commander #2: CC 90-93
GC/Commander #3: CC 100-103
GC/Commander #4: CC 110-113

For instance, if I would like my Pedal Switcher to use CC 90-93, I send this SysEx first:

F0 00 00 07 02 08 10 F7

To "switch" to the first default configuration (CC 80-83), change "02" to "01" (and so on and so forth...)

Disclaimer thingie:
However, the above is just my assumptions (or an educated guess, at best) of how it works, based on (relatively) common sense and working with midi for over 20 years.
It's not confirmed in any way from Voodoo Lab. I guess there are other configuration options through SysEx as well, but that's for someone to figure out. The default config is working nicely for me

Best regards,

Andreas
Norway

[JohnClark]

In order to control Pedal Switcher with a third party MIDI controller, you would first need to send the following hex SysEx string:

F0 00 00 07 01 08 10 F7

Once, this SysEx message is received, Pedal Switcher loops 1 - 4 will respond to Control Change messages 80-83 on MIDI channel 16. Note: The SysEx message need only be sent once (each time Pedal Switcher is powered on).
====

Hello,

I just figured out that you can also set the Pedal Switcher to use CC 90-93, CC 100-103 and CC 110-113.

Since the SysEx quoted above is the same control message as the first GC connected is automatically transmitting at power-up, I took a wild guess and modified "01" to "02", to "emulate" the second Ground Control in line (#2). Lo and behold, it worked.

From this info, I concluded that the Pedal Switcher's internal patch table looks a bit like this:
GC/Commander #1: CC 80-83
GC/Commander #2: CC 90-93
GC/Commander #3: CC 100-103
GC/Commander #4: CC 110-113

For instance, if I would like my Pedal Switcher to use CC 90-93, I send this SysEx first:

F0 00 00 07 02 08 10 F7

To "switch" to the first default configuration (CC 80-83), change "02" to "01" (and so on and so forth...)

Disclaimer thingie:
However, the above is just my assumptions (or an educated guess, at best) of how it works, based on (relatively) common sense and working with midi for over 20 years.
It's not confirmed in any way from Voodoo Lab. I guess there are other configuration options through SysEx as well, but that's for someone to figure out. The default config is working nicely for me

Best regards,

Andreas
Norway

Good figuring there!

You can indeed set the Device Number which in turn sets the Control Change set used by the Pedal Switcher. A Ground Control Pro will automatically send this message once the "GCXs" are enabled but with a non Digital Music Corp./Voodoo Lab controller you would first need to send the above SySex to the original Pedal Switchers to use Control Change messages. The acceptable range is 01H to 04H.

Also the "10" in the original message is where we are defining MIDI Channel 16. This can be any value from 01H to 10H to set the MIDI Channel you wish to use from 1 - 16.

Good Luck!

[atchoo]

I was so exited about the whole Midi CC thing, that I got the numbers all wrong. Midi Monitor to the rescue.

Read this post for the correct CC table - by JohnClark:

viewtopic.php?t=6042

Here are the Controller numbers for each "GCX"...

GCX #1
Normal (Latching) = 80-87 / Momentary = 104-111

GCX #2
Normal (Latching) = 88-95 / Momentary = 112-119

GCX #3
Normal (Latching) = 64-71 / Momentary = 96-103

GCX #4
Normal (Latching) = 56-63 / Momentary = 72-79


On a GCX, the Momentary mode is intended for controlling amplifier switching functions. It doesn't really have a place on the Pedal Switchers.

Good Luck!

[Troy Derden]

From the FAQ section of the Pedal Switcher Manual:

Can I use a third-party MIDI footcontroller with Pedal Switcher?
Not really. You can call up the Pedal Switcher’s presets with MIDI program change commands, but there is no way to save or modify presets without Commander.

Maybe late, but...

actually it is possible,
The commander is only messaging to save or retrieve presets form the memory of the pedal switcher

Sending (to the pedal switcher)
F0 00 00 07 20 00 01 00 00 F7 will save the current activated loops in preset 1 of the pedal switcher
F0 00 00 07 20 00 02 00 00 F7 will retrieve that preset (in this case preset 1)
F0 00 00 07 20 00 01 00 01 F7 will save the current activated loops in preset 2 of the pedal switcher
etc...
F0 00 00 07 20 00 02 00 09 F7 will retrieve the preset (in this case preset 10)

Just did this with a roland UM-one connected to the pedal switcher alone