Dry/Wet System / Delay Trails / GMajor 2

[TKVienna]

Dear Forum-Users,

this is a simplified diagram of my current rack.



As you will see, it is a non-dry/wet rack. I will now move my rack to a new rack case. Taking the opportunity, I am considering implementing the following two changes to my rack:

1) Implementing a dry/wet structure
2) Implementing delay trails.

I have come up with the following two alternatives:



In this alternative, the dry signal is split after the ISP Decimator ProRack G (channel 2) to the power amp whereas the wet signal runs through the effects, which are switched on/off via the GCX/GCP. The delay trails are achieved with a Lehle Parallel M mixer. All changes compared to my current rack are highlighted in red.

This is the other alternative where I split the dry/wet signal after the G-Major 2. The rest of the structure remains the same.



I tend to prefer the second alternative since the G Major 2 apparently works best in a serial loop and also since I use the G Major 2 in most cases for modulation, pitch and filter effects, which (as I believe) work best (and are easier to control) in a serial effect way.

What do you think? Any comments, suggestions or questions?

Best,
Thomas

[JohnClark]

Nice work!

[a2dconverter]

Hey Thomas... Nice rig!

The secret to getting delay trails and a true Wet/Dry is to use a mixer to create a parallel FX system...

The reason that the G-Major sounds better to you connected serially is that you have no phase issues in serial mode... If you run the G-Major in a parallel system you have to "Kill Dry", otherwise your Preamp Dry signal can be out of phase with the G-Major Dry...(very important!)

The nice thing about going parallel is your JMP-1 Preamp tone stays analog all the way through the chain and doesn't go through A/D and D/A converters in the G-Major.

My system is similar to yours... have a look at how I implement the mixer to provide what you are looking for...

I am mixing the JMP-1 Dry with the G-Major (Kill-Dry) and a TC Electronic ND-1 Delay (Kill-Dry) in parallel.

The GCX is muting the inputs to the G-Major and TC Electronic ND-1 Delay to allow proper trails to pass on to the mixer.

For True Wet Dry, my patch panel interrupts the DRY signal to the mixer and allows a separate feed for the DRY at the Patch Panel PRE Jack. The Wet is available at the Patch Panel FX Jack via a Palmer Y-Box for Isolation... [Voila.. Wet/ Dry!]






More pix here...

http://stagecue.com/jmp1.html

Let me know if I can help further

Seeya

Joe

[nyteowl]

Joe's da man!!

[TKVienna]

Hi Joe,

thanks a lot for sharing your rig with us. It really looks great. Also the diagram is very well done. Congrats!!

It was a quite busy week for me so I had no chance to go through everything in detail, but I already have a few questions:

- how do you get along with the G Major 2 in a wet/dry system when you use it for pitch or filter effects (e.g. vibrato, whammy, pitch shifter). I use the G Major 2 currently only for these effects.
- which splitter do you use to split the signal to your effects?
- I saw you use the boost pedal in front of the pre-amp. I currently use my boost pedal after the preamp and the effects so I do not need to worry about clipping etc when I boost my signal for solos. Do you experience issues with clipping when using the boost in front of the preamp and other effects?

Thanks again for your help!

Best,
Thomas

[a2dconverter]

Hello Thomas...

On the G-Major, I do not use any Pitch based effects, but as long as you activate the G-Major 'kill-dry' the pitch effects should translate to the output mixed with your dry signal.. I think that the tremolo will be affected... I think that's why I went with a separate Tremolo pedal.

The splitter that I use is a RADIO LABS ST-DA3 AUDIO SPLITTER that I repackaged with my ISP Decimator G-String in a 1/2 rack box...

There are other active splitters, (Nobels, etc.), that already have the 1/4" jacks and power input.

Make sure that you use an active splitter.... this will maintain the impedance to the FX when you mute one of the FX inputs. (i.e. you will not get level fluctuations when muting one of the FX)








On the boost, I did move the EP boost after the JMP-1 for a nice clean level boost... Here is a later pic that represents that on GCX loop 4..





Also, I usually do not Run Wet/Dry as it means another mic at a gig... I leave the PRE Jack on my Patch panel disconnected so that the Preamp DRY signal continues to the mixer... then, the output of the mixer feeds the Palmer Y-BOX which has 2 isolated outputs to feed a stereo power amp or the RETURN jacks of two amplifier heads. (The signal outputs are both the same...a wet/ dry mix.)



Thanks for the kind comments

Seeya

Joe

[TKVienna]

Thank you for the reply. That is indeed a very sophisticated system. I will try for the moment to have the G Major before the dry/wet split to make my life a little bit easier and will use the Lehle Mixer for the Delay spillovers as this is the only unit in my rack for which spillovers are currently useful.

I may change things at a later stage and implement a proper wet/dry + splillover structure after I have added/replaced a few effects (including maybe the G Major 2).

I will start now moving my equipment to my new 15 U rack case and will update you once I am done (with pics!).

Maybe one more question regarding your rig: how did you wire the Pre In/Pre Out interruption? Is this difficult to DIY?

All the best from Vienna,
Thomas

[a2dconverter]

Hello Thomas..

In order to provide Normalization between the PRE IN and PRE OUT jacks you need at least one 1/4" Jack that has a N.C. (Normally Closed) contact...

I think a picture is worth a thousand words... here is a pic representing how a Wet/ Dry Mix can become a separate Wet - Dry System...



I hope this helps

Seeya

Joe

[TKVienna]

Thank you, that was very helpful.

Best,
Thomas

PS: Do you have a diagram for every piece of your rack?

[a2dconverter]

PS: Do you have a diagram for every piece of your rack?

Ha!

I make up the drawings as required to explain principles on this and other forums.... making up drawings is part of my job so I fire them off quickly....

Glad to help

Seeya

Joe